Hello?

Patrick?

Yes.

Campbell.

What’s going on Campbell?

Sorry I’m late dude. I got stuck on the other phone.

That’s alright man.

I was looking at the clock the whole time, going ‘Patrick’s waiting for me.’ Can’t get off. Actually I was on the phone with a good friend. Sorry about that.

That’s cool.

Do you want me to call you on a land line?

No. This is fine. I’m ready to go.

Are you calling me from New York?

I’m calling you from New York? Upstate. Now, “Off The Map” comes out on DVD August 9.

Yeah, I got an advanced copy from MGM, I believe. Or, I can’t remember.

Is it Columbia Tristar?

Yeah. Columbia.

Did you ever see it on a large screen?

I did not.

Aw, man. That’s the way to see it. But I shouldn’t say that in the DVD article, should I? No. You just gotta have a big TV I guess.

And good sound.

And good sound. Exactly.

I got it in the mail a couple weeks ago and watched it last week and was pretty excited about it. I was very moved by the film and thought it was very powerful and somewhat unexpected.

Yeah. I’m glad. That’s a good cast, isn’t it?

Very good cast. I remember when I got it in the mail and was looking it over, I was just like ‘wow, this is actually pretty nice.’

Yeah.

What was it about this script that initially got your attention to do this film?

Well. You know Patrick, it was a play originally. I saw a small production of the play, written also by the woman that did the screenplay, Joan Ackermann. Joan and I are the ones that do the commentary on the DVD. This was over 10 years ago. I saw a little production in a small theater that Joan founded. I just fell in love with it and I was trying to become a director at the time and I bought it and we just started working on the screenplays.

How did you initially go about casting for this film because as you mentioned, there are a lot of great people in it?

Once we had a script that we really liked, which took a little while, then we started trying to raise the money, and of course, that took forever, which is always the case. But, Joan Allen was the first one that I thought of. I didn’t know her, but I was a fan of hers. I knew her from Chicago theater years ago. Steppenwolf. And I just thought she’d be perfect. I remember getting together with her a couple of times, seeing if she would attach her name to the script and try and get it going. She didn’t want to do it. She turned it down a bunch of times. She’s very honest and I like that in an actor (laughs). She said look, I don’t want to play another mother. I’ve done a lot of mothers who are kind of keeping the family together and I kept saying ‘yeah, but this is different. This is different.’ But I left her alone because I didn’t want to bother her. But I tell you, every year or two whenever the thing would come back up again and it seemed like it was gonna get made, I’d call her and just ask her again and shockingly, the fifth time she said ‘alright, I’ll do it.’ That kind of was the key. Also, I had Jim True-Frost, who plays William, who’s so great. He’s an old friend of mine. We did “Singles” together many years ago. That Cameron Crowe film. Ever since I got the script together, I also was thinking of him to play William. Just ‘cause Jim’s got that kind of sort of deadpan delivery, really subtle kind of funny delivery, but also underneath a lot going on and not many actors can do that really well. I just always had him in mind. Valentina, the little girl was a discovery. She was found by the casting director after looking at lots of little girls. She’s actually a New York girl, a New York City girl. Had never been out to New Mexico or any place like that. I just thought she was a good actress and she was very poised and very mature just like the character. Kind of precocious and smart and she was fantastic. She’d never made a movie before. The rest of the cast took her on as a colleague immediately and they dealt with her really well. And J.K. Simmons, who’s a great actor from New York originally. He was a suggestion from one of the producers and I didn’t even meet him. I just saw him in a couple of things and just thought he was perfect. Sam Elliott was the last one we got because we couldn’t find a Charley. We had a couple of guys that we wanted and they would fall out. He was Joan’s suggestion, because she had worked with him on “The Contender.” And I thought ‘geez, why didn’t we think of Sam Eliott?’ That’s perfect. And to his credit, you always wait if someone says no, you figure they’re not right for it. But he was like ‘yeah, I’ll take a shot at this.’ He hadn’t done anything like it before. I think he’s so effective in the movie. Because he’s so believable as this guy who usually is the most able guy around. But is obviously kind of paralyzed by the start of the movie. There’s something about Sam’s face. He just does it. He makes the part totally believable. He’s a hell of an actor. Then Amy Brenneman came in even later. She was a couple of weeks before we started. We were trying to find someone who’s really good that looked like Valentina growing up. With green eyes, etc., etc. And then a friend, Lucinda Jenney, who’s a very good actress actually had suggested Joan early on, many years ago, she suggested Amy Brenneman and we said ‘god, what a great idea.’ Amy shockingly said ‘yeah, sure, I’ll come out to New Mexico for three days.’

Valentina, she’s definitely a surprise in the film because she carries the film during the first part of it.

Sure.

It’s a surprise to hear that she was just kind of found.

Yep. She was found. She’s half Puerto Rican, half Italian girl from New York City. You never know about young actors too. I’ve suddenly, recently done a lot of things with young actors for some reason. This movie that’s out now, ‘Saint Ralph’ and ‘The Secret Lives of Dentists,’ I had three daughters, Hope Davis and I had three daughters. Suddenly I’ve been working with a lot of kids and you’re always a little worried that their either too professional or not professional enough or something and, I don’t know, Valentina … my instinct always says go with the one that seems like they’re the best actor, ultimately. They have a certain amount of flexibility, but they’re really serious about it, but they also have a good sense of humor and Valentina had all those things. She did not disappoint. People love her in the movie because, as you said, you kind of see the movie through her eyes.

Sam Elliott’s portrayal of Charlie was also kind of unexpected. It’s probably the darkest and most intriguing characterization in the film. It’s very strange to see someone like Sam Elliott like catatonic and crying all the time.

(laughs). I know.

How did you go about staging his character in the film, or did he just run with it?

That’s the thing. It’s so funny. To me, I’m an actor first. I just started directing a couple things a few years ago, and I love it, I’m into it, but I know that one of the things that is always gonna serve you is if you give good actors chances to do things they haven’t done before. Because as an actor myself, I always know that if someone calls me and asks me to do what I just did in ‘Roger Dodger’ because that’s how they imagine me. I always say no, forget it, now I wanna do something different. If actors like Sam Elliott read that script and say ‘I’ll give it a shot,’ then already half your work is done because you know they’re gonna be challenged and kind of into it from the very beginning. From what I understand, J.K. too, I guess J.K. was on this show called ‘Oz’ on HBO, playing one of the meanest guys on the show. Again for him to play that quiet, kind of sweet guy, is totally different. Even Joan to play kind of half Native American, very different from stuff she’d already done. Now people are on their best feet because they haven’t done it before. That means they’re really engaged with what they’re doing. So much fun putting actors in that position. Sam, certainly Sam because he’s been around in so many movies, and as you say, never done anything like this before. Frankly, the older I get and the more I direct, the less I say to people. I just hire the right people and I just try to encourage them a little. Sam had it from the beginning. A couple of times, he’d be like, what’s this all about? But most of the time, he’d just say, ‘I’ll be over here crying.’ (laughs). I’ll give it a shot. But the other thing too about the writing, about Joan Ackerman’s writing, when I first saw the play, when I first saw the play, what I loved was, even though we can safely say one of the central characters in the movie is in a depression, the play and hopefully the movie too, wasn’t depressing at all to me. It’s incredibly funny too. When I saw the play, I couldn’t believe how much I was laughing. That had to do with Joan’s take on everything. Obviously with a condition like depression, which is an actual, physical thing as well, condition, you want to be careful and not trivialize it or whatever when you’re making a movie. People who have seen it or experienced it either in their own lives or as psychiatrists or whatever, they’d seen the movie, they said, it struck them as very accurate. That’s kudos to Joan and Sam for getting that right.

You mentioned earlier, your working relationship with Jim. I’m a huge fan of ‘Singles,’ so when I saw him in the movie I thought it was kind of interesting that you guys were paired up again. He does an amazing job as William.

He sure does.

How was it for you working together with him again?

He almost has the hardest job because that character, like I said, so much is going on, but on the surface, he’s incredibly placid to begin with. All this stuff has to kind of leak out of him as the movie goes along. Very, very difficult to pull that off. I don’t know, I just knew Jim though. He’s actually a personal friend. I’ve known him for years. We became friends during ‘Singles’ in Seattle and I’ve known him ever since. As long as he was game for me directing him, I knew we would be fine. People like Joan and Jim, everybody, even crew members, stuff like that. The DP, Juan Ruiz Anchia, who’s a great DP, been around forever. I did a movie called ‘Dying Young’ with him many, many years ago and he’s one of the best. But you know, you treat them like colleagues and that’s the way I treated Jim. You immediately bring them in and ‘what do you have to say?’ ‘What do you want to try?’ You certainly tell them what you want and then hope that the combination of what everybody wants is gonna be interesting. I knew Jim had it early on. He’s such a smart actor, I’ve seen him on stage a million times. He really knows how to build somebody. He’s directed himself. I make pretty low budget films that shoot quickly, there’s really not a lot of time for discussion. You basically talk about a few things and then you go make it and hope for the best (laughs).

The film itself, tell me a little about the circumstances of its release. It was originally filmed in 2003 and is just now getting to video.

It was fall of 2003 and it took us a long time. We went to a bunch of festivals. It was a big festival movie. Then Hole Digger, which was the company that made it, got so frustrated with either not finding a distributor … not getting a distributor or not finding one that who they liked, they released it themselves finally. And it’s actually still  playing, I guess, in a couple theaters. It’s out in Kansas City. Big hit in Kansas City. I think it’s up in Vermont. We opened on March 11. It was all over the country for awhile. It’s one of those movies that, distribution I’m finding is the final piece of the puzzle and now what you’re helping us with, the DVD release is sort of the big punctuation that everybody’s kind of waiting for. It’ll be fascinating to see what happens with it on tape if people can … ‘cause I know it’s a movie, when audiences go, they just eat it up. They love it. I hope it’s unlike most movies that they see nowadays. It takes its time and it really brings you into its world and all of that stuff and that’s what people seem to love about it and they tell people they know.

Is there a part of you that’s excited and anxious to know that people will be renting it starting Tuesday?

Um. You know, no ones put it to me like that before, but yes, of course. What I find myself feeling because of what I said to you, the first thing that I said to you was, have you seen it on the big screen? By that I don’t mean to take away from the DVD. I’m just hoping most people out there have bigger screens only because it’s one of those environmental movies. It’s a landscape movie. It’s the kind of movie that I grew up loving. Terrance Malik and Caroll Ballard Those are the guys I always mention when I’m interviewed about it. Because they’re the ones who … I just love those movies where people are in their natural environment. This one, because of the cinematography by Juan and the whole look, all the designers did such an amazing job, the music, everything. It can be a very, I hope it was, even on the small screen you watched, a very enveloping experience. You really get involved because, for two reasons, one, because the story is good and two because New Mexico is an amazing place. Joan really captured it. Joan Ackermann and Juan and everybody. We tried. So, I’ll see. I’m dying to find out if it translates in people’s homes. I hope it will. It’s a movie almost everybody in the family can watch. Which is rare for me because I’m making ‘Roger Dodger’ or something you’re kids can’t watch. Or something adult. This is new for me. So, I’m dying to see what happens. It’s a movie that your 13-year-old daughter can watch and hopefully fall in love with. That was a good plug huh? (laughs).

It’s for all ages (laughs).

It’s for all ages. (yells)

I see what you’re saying about the cinematography. I live out in Montana so I see great scenery all around me, so when I see it on a film, I have a respect for it. It’s definitely one of those kinds of films that is good to look at.

What size screen did you watch it on?

36-inch television. Nothing spectacular.

That’s pretty big.

Yeah.

Did you find yourself at least taken in by it?

Definitely.

How did the DVD look? Was it good?

It looked very good. Looks very sharp.

Good.

It’s one of those movies where I think if I watch it in the wintertime it’ll make me feel warm and fuzzy.

Exactly. (laughs).

You want that right? When you got cabin fever.

Exactly.

What are your hopes for the film down the road? When a movie comes out on video, it’s the finalization of everything.

Absolutely. I don’t know. Remember, I’m new to this. I’ve only had one other movie that I’ve solo directed come out on video, which was a smaller movie which was called ‘Final.’ Videos are odd because in a way their kind of cool because there’s no way of really gauging. There’s an initial gauge of purchases I guess and rentals and things like that. You always wonder if it’s sitting on a shelf somewhere and people are enjoying it. Let’s just hope it goes out as far as possible. Obviously now, internationally, I hope it has a life both theatrically and on video too. With the smaller movies you never know. There’s such a big huge push for the larger movies. They are a product in a way. The smaller movies are harder to gauge. Is anyone really seeing them and if so are they passing them on and stuff like that. Hopefully they are.

What kind of projects are you working on right now?

I’m always trying to direct things. I don’t have anything right now. I’m trying to write some stuff. I have some other films as an actor coming up. This movie ‘Saint Ralph’ just came out in some markets and will probably go wider depending on how it does. A really nice Canadian film about a young boy who’s a runner. Caroll Ballard film. One of my heroes. Hope Davis and I did a film called ‘Duma’ about a boy and his cheetah. I have a seven-year-old child and suddenly it appears I’m doing all these things that he can see. That’s probably changed my career a little for the better. But, this movie ‘Duma’ is out in Chicago now and hopefully will go wider. Very beautiful, kind of amazing Caroll Ballard film. That’s it. ‘The Dying Gaul’ this movie I produced and acted in with Peter Sarsgaard and Patricia Clarkson which is a Craig Lucas movie, based on one of his plays, is also coming out in October. Very different, I don’t know if you’ve read about it. Like a brutal, kind of Hollywood relationship thriller. Very intense movie. People seem to like that one too. You just try to mix it up, man. See what happens.

Campbell, thanks for getting in touch with me. This will run next week.

Fantastic.

Really enjoyed it. Good luck down the road man.

Thanks for your help Patrick.

Later.

Bye. Bye.

To read an in-depth TCS review of "Off The Map" go here